How to Overcome Fear In Your Money and Your Marriage


Transcript

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(upbeat music)

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(audience applauding)

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- Well, hey everyone,

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and welcome to a special edition
of The Rachel Cruze Show.

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Today is the very first
time we've ever done this,

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but we actually have a live
studio audience here with us

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and I am just so pumped.

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I kind of feel like Oprah.

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(audience laughing)
I'm not gonna lie.

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I know I'm not Oprah.
No one's getting a car.

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But I'm gonna channel her. Yes.

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Well, in today's episode,
we are going to talk about

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overcoming fear in marriage.

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Fear keeps us from peace

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and really living out
the life that you love.

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So, I want you to be
able to overcome that.

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I'm bringing out one of my
favorite authors and speakers,

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Patsy Clairmont.

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She is wonderful, and you
are going to love her

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because she brings so
much wisdom to this topic.

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We're also going to talk to a couple

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who just became debt-free.

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And they have such a powerful story.

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And then, Patsy and I will be doing

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a live Q and A together

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to answer our live audience questions.

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Now, when I think about fear, personally,

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I really don't consider
myself a very fearful person.

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(bright music)

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Okay, when I think about my fears,

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they might be a little dramatic.

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My family and I, we went
to Jamaica a few months ago,

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and we did this
dolphin excursion thing

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where you go swim with wild dolphins.

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And in the middle of this excursion,

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I'm swimming out in
the middle of this cove,

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and I remember thinking to myself,

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oh wow, I'm about to have this wild animal

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come up behind me, and I'm
supposed to grab its fin,

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and it's gonna take me on this joyride.

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And then I'm thinking, no, it as easily,

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could grab my foot and drag
me to the bottom of the ocean,

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and I could die. Mmm hmm.

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(audience laughing)
100%.

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So, I have a fear of
dolphins, weirdly enough.

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I also have a fear of storms.

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I don't like thunderstorms,
the whole thing about it.

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You know the little ticker
that comes across the TV

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with that little sound.

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(mimicking news banner sound)

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(audience giggling)
Ooh, it gives me anxiety.

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I don't like it.

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Tornadoes, nope don't do those.

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I also have a fear,
actually my greatest fear,

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is being convicted of a
crime that I didn't commit.

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(audience laughing)

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If you can imagine being
in jail, and you're like,

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I didn't do it. I promise I didn't do it.

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Oh no, I can't. I can't
even think about it.

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So, I know that some of
those fears, percentagewise,

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probably are not going to happen.

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But it's important to know
that when fear does flare up

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it actually can be a good thing.

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It can even be considered a gift.

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Fear is a God-given feeling.

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Chip Dodd says that it's
not a sin. It can be scary.

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But fear is just the
recognition that we need help.

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So, you can have fear in your
career, in your relationships,

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marriage and money.

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And it's important, within
your marriage, for you to know

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what you and your spouse both fear.

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So, since we focus on money in this show,

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here are a couple of financial
fears that people have:

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If something unexpected comes up,

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we won't survive financially.

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Time is running out, and I won't
get to live like I'd hoped.

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I won't be able to get ahead
because of how the world works.

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There's also the fear that,

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because of my past financial mistakes,

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I'm not gonna be able
to have a better future.

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And then also the fear

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that I will end up just like my parents.

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So, those are some examples
of fears that people have

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when it comes to money.

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Now, I've learned, again, that
fear can be a good thing

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because it motivates us
to put things in place

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in our life to help us.

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But when fear grows beyond
protecting us to paralyzing us,

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that's when it turns into anxiety,

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and that's not what we want.

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Scripture is very clear not
to be anxious about anything,

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and I take that as truth.

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So, fear can actually be a good thing,

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but we have to deal with
it in a healthy way.

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And just remember, one
way to overcome fear,

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it is not just to be tougher,

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but it's to be vulnerable and to be known.

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And part of that is being
known by your spouse.

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So, coming up next is Patsy Clairmont.

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I cannot wait for you
guys to hear from her.

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She's been married 57 years
and has so much wisdom

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when it comes to marriage.

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So, please help me
welcome Patsy Clairmont.

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(audience applauding)

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Patsy, thanks for being here.

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- Well, thank you.

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I think I don't fit.

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(audience laughing)

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- You're like the cutest
little petite thing ever.

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Well, thanks for being here for the show.

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- Thank you.

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- And I have had the
pleasure of knowing you

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and knowing your story,
but not everyone watching

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may know who you are. So give
us a little bit of your story.

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- Well, it's not pleasant, but
it gets better as it goes on,

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so have hope.

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I was a high school dropout 
and a teenage runaway.

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I was married by the time I was 17.

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I had my first baby at 20. And
then I became an agoraphobic,

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which sounds like the Ringling brothers,

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but actually what it means is

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that you are housebound by fear.

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Now, at this time, I have a husband

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and a young baby,

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and I'm becoming nonfunctional.

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And soon

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after indulging my fear,

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because I didn't know what to
do with it, I gave into it.

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And when you do that it multiplies.

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When it finally hit me, that if something

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didn't change,

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I wasn't gonna make it.

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There would be nothing else to do with me

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but lock me away.

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I had already withdrawn
from society into my home, and

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withdrawn in my home into my bed.

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And I wanted my poor
dear husband to fix me.

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Just fix me.

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I wanna be like you.

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But I was not meant to be like him.

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I was meant to be like Jesus.

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And He offers freedom.

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I said, "Dear Lord,

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I'm not gonna make it if
you don't do something.

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So here's the deal.

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You tell me what to do, and
whatever it is, I'll obey you."

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And in that moment,

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I heard inside of me

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a voice.

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It wasn't on the outside. I would've known,

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that it's all over now, lock me up.

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(audience laughing)
But it was on the inside.

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And the voice said,

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"Make your bed."

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And I thought, make my bed?

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I'm telling you I wanna get well

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so I can do great things for you,

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and you're saying make my bed?

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That didn't make any sense to me.

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I would learn later that there's
a principle in God's Word

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that says, "When you're
faithful in the little things

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I ask you, I'll give you more.

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And when you're faithful in more,

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I'm gonna give you much."

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And I stepped out of the bed that day.

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Because see, that's what
I didn't understand.

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What do you mean make the bed? I'm in it.

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(audience laughing)

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You know, it's real hard
to make it when you're in it.

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Well, hello.

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So I got up, and I made

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the bed.

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But then I didn't know what to do

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with my energy and my fear.

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And God would bring
one book after another,

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one person after another
to invest in my life.

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And I was hungry

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to get well, and to be sane,

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and to be able to love on
my family in healthy ways.

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- So good, Patsy.

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It is such a beautiful
story of redemption, really,

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out of this fear topic
that we're talking about

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on the show today. And so,
you said you were married,

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newly married, during all of this time.

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But now, fast-forward, it's been 57 years—

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- Yeah.

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- of marriage.

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- It's called endurance.

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- That's right!

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- Wit and witty.

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- Okay, that's it. That's
what I was gonna ask you.

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What's the secret, right?

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How do you last 57 years?

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How do you have a marriage
to get to that point?

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- Well, you hold your breath a lot.

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(Rachel laughing)

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So you don't say the first
thing that's on your mind.

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It's not always in your best
interest or anyone else's.

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There's something about
just taking a deep breath

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and saying, do I really wanna say this?

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And is it kind?

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Is it loving?

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Is it hopeful?

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Will it bring about goodwill between us?

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I'm not saying we did that all the time.

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I'm saying that's a good idea to do.

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(audience laughing)

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- I bet you did, Patsy.

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I bet you did.

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Okay, so looking back in your marriage,

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what are a couple of things,

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that was one great example.

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What's something else that you're so happy

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that you guys did over the years?

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- That we hung in there with each other

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because it would have been
easier to quit a number of times.

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Because you have seasons in your marriage

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just like you have seasons at work

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and seasons at everyday life.

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And I found that it was
helpful, in those distant times,

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when one of us could say to
the other, I'm still here!

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(audience laughing)

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We're gonna make it through this.

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And oftentimes, the difficult seasons

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were in the midst of a big problem.

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- Yeah.

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- You know, you bump up against a problem,

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and it kind of seeps
through your relationship.

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And you have to kind of learn
what to do with all of that.

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And I did a lot of blaming 
to my husband

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about what I felt

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instead of taking responsibility
for my own feelings.

0:10:03.870,0:10:07.430
So I had to learn to
name what I was feeling

0:10:07.430,0:10:10.970
and then to own it and do something

0:10:10.970,0:10:12.500
with it

0:10:12.500,0:10:14.560
besides blame him.

0:10:14.560,0:10:18.290
And that improved a lot
of things in our marriage.

0:10:18.290,0:10:19.200
- Yeah, that's so good.

0:10:19.200,0:10:20.540
Well, you kind of answer my next question.

0:10:20.540,0:10:22.540
But you're sitting here,
so I wanna keep asking it

0:10:22.540,0:10:24.180
because I want more advice.

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Okay, so, what were
things that you look back,

0:10:26.870,0:10:30.377
and you say, okay, man, if
we just did that differently,

0:10:30.377,0:10:31.210
I would do that.

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If I could go back in time and do

0:10:32.897,0:10:35.560
X, Y, or Z differently,
I probably would.

0:10:35.560,0:10:38.600
- Yes, I used my moods to control.

0:10:38.600,0:10:40.230
I would do that differently.

0:10:40.230,0:10:41.540
I wouldn't do that.

0:10:41.540,0:10:42.950
That's cruel.

0:10:42.950,0:10:46.320
I would, instead of saying words,

0:10:46.320,0:10:48.790
I'd slam a cupboard.

0:10:48.790,0:10:53.560
Or, boy, I'd really punish
him by shutting down

0:10:53.560,0:10:55.600
and not saying any words.

0:10:55.600,0:10:58.751
Well, that was relief. It was his vacation.

0:10:58.751,0:11:02.340
(audience laughing)

0:11:02.340,0:11:07.340
We would begin the long journey
of learning how to grow up

0:11:07.670,0:11:11.850
into adulthood when we were
already in our adult years.

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- Yeah, absolutely.

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Because, as every marriage
knows, including yours, right?

0:11:16.030,0:11:19.060
You face these problems. At
times you do feel disconnected.

0:11:19.060,0:11:21.840
So, what did you and your
husband do to stay connected

0:11:21.840,0:11:23.310
during those hard times?

0:11:23.310,0:11:25.310
- Well, sometimes we did it wrong

0:11:25.310,0:11:27.530
and sometimes we did it right.

0:11:27.530,0:11:30.131
This was all new language to us.

0:11:30.131,0:11:30.964
- Right, right.

0:11:30.964,0:11:33.940
- And so, it would take us time to learn.

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Whenever you get a new skill, it has to be

0:11:37.270,0:11:40.027
integrated into the relationship.

0:11:40.027,0:11:40.860
- Yep.

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- And that doesn't come,
usually, overnight.

0:11:43.990,0:11:44.823
- No.

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- And the one thing that
we found that's helpful

0:11:48.300,0:11:53.050
is to just reassure each
other that you love them.

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I don't particularly like you right now,

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but I want to assure you that I love you.

0:11:59.160,0:12:00.910
- Yeah, that's so good.

0:12:00.910,0:12:03.130
I think, for Winston and I, in this season,

0:12:03.130,0:12:04.120
we've just learned . . .

0:12:04.120,0:12:05.700
So, we've been married
10 years in December.

0:12:05.700,0:12:07.240
And for some reason,

0:12:07.240,0:12:08.880
it's like these seasons kind of flare up.

0:12:08.880,0:12:12.610
And for us, we've kind of gone
back to this vulnerability

0:12:12.610,0:12:15.660
and being known on a deep, deep level.

0:12:15.660,0:12:16.760
Just in this last season,

0:12:16.760,0:12:19.680
it's kind of been this
refreshing thing of us going back

0:12:19.680,0:12:23.420
to this idea of, okay, if we
just are completely, 100% known

0:12:23.420,0:12:26.230
by each other, the depth that
your marriage goes in that.

0:12:26.230,0:12:27.720
And so, we've really been acting in that,

0:12:27.720,0:12:29.120
really the last probably 12 months,

0:12:29.120,0:12:30.780
and being really purposeful on it.

0:12:30.780,0:12:32.790
So, I think being vulnerable is huge.

0:12:32.790,0:12:34.610
It can be really hard for some people.

0:12:34.610,0:12:36.580
But I think it is a big part of marriage.

0:12:36.580,0:12:40.910
So, for you guys, how
would you advise someone

0:12:40.910,0:12:43.276
to create kind of this vulnerable space

0:12:43.276,0:12:45.790
for spouses to be known and be vulnerable?

0:12:45.790,0:12:49.030
- When Les and I were
trying, we both thought,

0:12:49.030,0:12:50.080
oh, this is weird.

0:12:50.080,0:12:51.450
Well, this is awkward.

0:12:51.450,0:12:55.190
But you have to practice
through your awkwardness.

0:12:55.190,0:13:00.190
And that feels uneasy for us.
We like a sense of control.

0:13:00.530,0:13:04.050
And when he would tell
me how he was feeling,

0:13:04.050,0:13:06.000
many times I was surprised.

0:13:06.000,0:13:09.030
I would think I didn't
know you felt that way.

0:13:09.030,0:13:11.400
Well, let me reassure you.

0:13:11.400,0:13:13.750
And he would reassure me.

0:13:13.750,0:13:16.220
- Okay, so someone
that's watching the show,

0:13:16.220,0:13:17.570
who's possibly single, right?

0:13:17.570,0:13:20.130
They don't have a spouse
to go through fear with.

0:13:20.130,0:13:22.850
They don't have that go-to person.

0:13:22.850,0:13:25.410
How important is it for
someone out there who's single

0:13:25.410,0:13:29.430
to have that person in their
life to walk through fear with?

0:13:29.430,0:13:32.390
- Yes, I couldn't be everything to Les,

0:13:32.390,0:13:35.020
and he couldn't be everything to me.

0:13:35.020,0:13:37.390
You can be lonely in a marriage.

0:13:37.390,0:13:40.540
It's not just the single
girls that have loneliness.

0:13:40.540,0:13:44.730
You can be married and
feel all by yourself.

0:13:44.730,0:13:47.780
There are times

0:13:47.780,0:13:51.670
that the Lord wants to
be the one you turn to.

0:13:51.670,0:13:53.390
Because He's the only one

0:13:53.390,0:13:57.200
that's gonna heal the
deep depth of your hurt.

0:13:57.200,0:13:59.847
And I often will say,

0:13:59.847,0:14:04.820
"Lord, I need a people to help walk with me."

0:14:04.820,0:14:08.380
And often, He will send me
counsel through someone,

0:14:08.380,0:14:12.260
and more often than not,
the counsel will come

0:14:12.260,0:14:14.300
through the lips of my husband.

0:14:14.300,0:14:19.300
And it may not be in the
serving dish I was hoping for.

0:14:19.465,0:14:22.347
- (laughing) That's a
nice way of putting it.

0:14:22.347,0:14:24.560
Patsy, you are wonderful.

0:14:24.560,0:14:26.130
I love being around you.

0:14:26.130,0:14:27.263
You're one of those
people that you're around,

0:14:27.263,0:14:29.620
and I'm like, I wanna
be you when I'm older.

0:14:29.620,0:14:33.110
I mean, seriously, you are
just absolutely incredible.

0:14:33.110,0:14:33.943
- Thank you.
- So thank you

0:14:33.943,0:14:34.776
so much for coming—
- Thank you.

0:14:34.776,0:14:36.050
- on the show today.

0:14:36.050,0:14:39.140
Well, coming up next is a
couple who recently just became

0:14:39.140,0:14:41.580
debt-free, and their
story is so motivating.

0:14:41.580,0:14:42.880
So, they're coming up next.

0:14:44.346,0:14:45.237
(audience applauding)

0:14:45.237,0:14:47.820
(upbeat music)

0:14:53.640,0:14:55.970
As a mom, every day I take precautions

0:14:55.970,0:14:58.050
to give my family peace of mind.

0:14:58.050,0:15:01.000
It's simple things, like
locking the front door,

0:15:01.000,0:15:03.180
making sure the car seats are buckled in,

0:15:03.180,0:15:05.810
and putting my phone
away when I'm driving.

0:15:05.810,0:15:08.240
But we don't always think
about the bigger things,

0:15:08.240,0:15:10.870
like what if something
happened to you or your spouse?

0:15:10.870,0:15:13.430
That's why you need term life insurance.

0:15:13.430,0:15:15.360
It makes sure your family's taken care of

0:15:15.360,0:15:17.000
no matter what happens.

0:15:17.000,0:15:19.030
I trust Zander Insurance.

0:15:19.030,0:15:20.510
They keep my family protected,

0:15:20.510,0:15:23.030
and that gives me such peace of mind.

0:15:23.030,0:15:24.560
They make things super simple

0:15:24.560,0:15:27.080
and find the best options and prices.

0:15:27.080,0:15:28.760
To learn more, call Zander today

0:15:28.760,0:15:30.630
or go to Zander.com.

0:15:30.630,0:15:34.159
Make sure your family has the
term life insurance they need.

0:15:34.159,0:15:36.742
(upbeat music)

0:15:38.950,0:15:41.150
- I guess I kinda felt lost,

0:15:41.150,0:15:43.690
really unsure of what was
gonna happen in the future.

0:15:43.690,0:15:47.380
- I definitely felt overwhelmed
by my student loan debt.

0:15:47.380,0:15:52.380
I felt bad that I was bringing
this debt into our marriage.

0:15:52.627,0:15:53.960
(gentle music)

0:15:53.960,0:15:58.100
- I proposed to Joanna, and
30 days later I lose my job.

0:15:58.100,0:16:01.470
And I was trying to
figure out, number one,

0:16:01.470,0:16:04.880
how am I gonna tell my
fiance that I lost my job?

0:16:04.880,0:16:06.920
When you don't have money to pay rent,

0:16:07.880,0:16:09.780
and you don't wanna ask
your fiance for the money,

0:16:09.780,0:16:11.690
but she knows you're too proud to do it,

0:16:11.690,0:16:15.240
and she has to fork over
$1,500 to do it—

0:16:15.240,0:16:18.155
man that just crushes you.

0:16:18.155,0:16:19.430
And that's what it did
for me. It just crushed me.

0:16:19.430,0:16:21.910
And I just told myself, never again.

0:16:21.910,0:16:24.107
I'm not gonna let that,

0:16:24.107,0:16:27.136
I'm not gonna let this feeling
happen to me ever again.

0:16:27.136,0:16:30.000
- So, a few months into
our marriage, in the fall,

0:16:30.000,0:16:32.500
we took Financial Peace University.

0:16:32.500,0:16:35.340
And I think, taking it, you have a fear of,

0:16:35.340,0:16:37.400
because you know, discomfort is coming,

0:16:37.400,0:16:40.355
you know your behavior's
gonna have to change.

0:16:40.355,0:16:45.030
And then also a fear of agreeing
about how to go about it

0:16:45.030,0:16:46.090
in the same way.

0:16:46.090,0:16:48.530
It's not common in our
culture that you have to

0:16:48.530,0:16:51.880
persevere and you have to
wait it out the long haul.

0:16:51.880,0:16:54.350
You know, some people have
even more debt than we did.

0:16:54.350,0:16:56.550
But it's like, even with
ours, it was daunting

0:16:56.550,0:16:59.540
to get newly married and be
like, we have $25,000 to pay off.

0:16:59.540,0:17:01.950
How fast can we get this done?

0:17:01.950,0:17:03.880
And actually, even in
November, we didn't think

0:17:03.880,0:17:06.290
that we were gonna do it,
that we were gonna make it.

0:17:06.290,0:17:08.760
And then the money just
came in, and we were like,

0:17:08.760,0:17:10.390
oh my gosh, thank you, God.

0:17:10.390,0:17:12.770
- When we pressed that
button, I knew that my wife

0:17:12.770,0:17:13.772
was gonna cry.

0:17:13.772,0:17:17.000
(Joanna laughing)
But man, I broke down.

0:17:17.000,0:17:18.010
It was just like

0:17:18.010,0:17:21.380
this weight was lifted
off of our shoulders.

0:17:21.380,0:17:23.890
- It's like, you worked
so hard for something,

0:17:23.890,0:17:26.900
and it came to reality

0:17:26.900,0:17:28.970
because of no one else but you.

0:17:28.970,0:17:31.098
It feels so freeing.

0:17:31.098,0:17:31.931
- Mmm hmm.

0:17:31.931,0:17:33.440
- I love that it's called
Financial Peace University

0:17:33.440,0:17:36.150
because it brings financial peace to you

0:17:36.150,0:17:38.347
that nothing else can.

0:17:38.347,0:17:41.580
- And we both talked about
how, after we paid off

0:17:41.580,0:17:43.480
the $25,000, it was like

0:17:43.480,0:17:47.020
this switch just
flipped on in our heads.

0:17:47.020,0:17:49.350
Now we're thinking, if we can do this,

0:17:49.350,0:17:53.270
if we can achieve this, what
else could we possibly do?

0:17:53.270,0:17:57.230
- You have to, you know,
break through that first step,

0:17:57.230,0:17:58.790
and just take that first step,

0:17:58.790,0:18:01.560
and be willing to change
your behavior a little bit,

0:18:01.560,0:18:04.260
and know that it's gonna work.

0:18:04.260,0:18:05.503
The system works.

0:18:05.503,0:18:08.086
(upbeat music)

0:18:09.127,0:18:12.294
(audience applauding)

0:18:16.420,0:18:17.480
- Well, Joanna and John Andre,

0:18:17.480,0:18:19.440
thank you guys so much for being here.

0:18:19.440,0:18:22.270
And we had fun because you
guys were in the office

0:18:22.270,0:18:23.541
just yesterday—
- [John Andre] Yep.

0:18:23.541,0:18:24.374
- [Joanna] Yeah.

0:18:24.374,0:18:25.360
- [Rachel] to do your debt-free scream.

0:18:25.360,0:18:26.470
And I did it with you guys.

0:18:26.470,0:18:27.650
- [Joanna And John] Yeah.

0:18:27.650,0:18:28.260
- [Rachel] It was groundbreaking.

0:18:28.260,0:18:29.000
Was that fun?

0:18:29.000,0:18:30.980
- [Joanna] Yeah. It was so much fun.
- [John] It was a blast.

0:18:30.980,0:18:32.140
- Good. (giggling) That's so great.

0:18:32.140,0:18:33.520
Well, I'm glad you guys came
on The Rachel Cruze Show

0:18:33.530,0:18:36.130
to share your story because I love it.

0:18:36.130,0:18:40.560
You guys are the textbook
way to do this money stuff.

0:18:40.560,0:18:41.610
You did it so well.

0:18:41.610,0:18:45.310
And so, take me back to when
you guys were newly engaged

0:18:45.310,0:18:46.950
and you were in debt.

0:18:46.950,0:18:48.713
- Yeah, so,

0:18:49.820,0:18:54.010
I proposed to my wife, and 30 days later,

0:18:54.010,0:18:57.300
after proposing, I lost my job.

0:18:57.300,0:19:00.326
And I'm thinking to myself, you know,

0:19:00.326,0:19:03.480
I just asked her father,

0:19:03.480,0:19:04.313
you know,

0:19:04.313,0:19:06.857
can I please take your
daughter's hand in marriage?

0:19:06.857,0:19:09.700
And 30 days later I have
no way of supporting her.

0:19:09.700,0:19:12.820
For so long, he had been
talking to me about FPU

0:19:12.820,0:19:14.340
and Dave Ramsey, right?

0:19:14.340,0:19:17.810
And to my father-in-law,
Dave Ramsey is like

0:19:17.810,0:19:19.863
the 13th disciple, right?

0:19:19.863,0:19:22.300
(audience laughing)

0:19:22.300,0:19:23.950
And I never really thought about it,

0:19:23.950,0:19:26.920
but as soon as the rubber hit the road,

0:19:26.920,0:19:28.400
I knew that I had to make a change.

0:19:28.400,0:19:32.770
I knew that I at least had
to look into this FPU thing.

0:19:32.770,0:19:36.560
Look into this whole Dave Ramsey

0:19:36.560,0:19:37.393
person.

0:19:37.393,0:19:40.760
And at that point, that's kind of where
it kind of sparked for me.

0:19:40.760,0:19:41.870
- Okay, yeah.

0:19:41.870,0:19:43.630
And that's a scary place to be, right,

0:19:43.630,0:19:45.320
- [John] Totally.
- of losing your job

0:19:45.320,0:19:46.153
and all of that.

0:19:46.153,0:19:49.440
Because how you grew up,
both of you, you know,

0:19:49.440,0:19:51.560
in separate households, and
how money was dealt with,

0:19:51.560,0:19:53.060
I'm sure it was probably different.

0:19:53.060,0:19:53.990
That's how most couples are.

0:19:53.990,0:19:58.323
So, what was life around money
growing up in your household?

0:19:59.570,0:20:04.070
- For me, my parents struggled until
they started doing Dave Ramsey.

0:20:04.070,0:20:07.890
And in 2004, they became
completely debt-free,

0:20:07.890,0:20:10.250
and still are to this day, obviously.

0:20:10.250,0:20:14.120
And my dad teaches the Dave
Ramsey classes and everything.

0:20:14.120,0:20:19.780
So, seeing their legacy and how
they're able to live so freely

0:20:20.680,0:20:24.340
I think has really inspired
us to want the same thing.

0:20:24.340,0:20:25.173
- Absolutely.

0:20:25.173,0:20:27.330
So, you grew up in a
household where, eventually,

0:20:27.330,0:20:28.900
it was like, okay, yeah,
money's talked about.

0:20:28.900,0:20:29.733
This is what we're doing.
- Yeah, it was talked about.

0:20:29.733,0:20:31.150
- God's in control.
- Yes.

0:20:31.150,0:20:32.210
- All of that. So great.

0:20:32.210,0:20:33.480
How about you?

0:20:33.480,0:20:35.640
- Yeah, so mine was a
little bit different.

0:20:35.640,0:20:38.190
So, I come from a divorce situation,

0:20:38.190,0:20:41.893
which I'm sure a ton of people here
can kind of relate to that.

0:20:42.750,0:20:44.920
So each household was different.

0:20:44.920,0:20:48.560
My mom is an immigrant woman,

0:20:48.560,0:20:50.040
so she was the only person

0:20:50.040,0:20:52.160
bringing income into our household.

0:20:52.160,0:20:55.330
So she would work all
day, two or three jobs.

0:20:55.330,0:20:57.256
On the flip side, my father's house,

0:20:57.256,0:21:01.410
him and my stepmom, they've
always had debt, right?

0:21:01.410,0:21:02.970
Ever since I can remember.

0:21:02.970,0:21:05.704
So for me, I kinda knew that,

0:21:05.704,0:21:08.390
even though I appreciated both households,

0:21:08.390,0:21:10.730
I wanted something
different for me, and my wife,

0:21:10.730,0:21:12.720
and our future children.

0:21:12.720,0:21:13.400
- Yeah, absolutely.

0:21:13.400,0:21:15.480
And would you say that was
a motivator for you guys

0:21:15.480,0:21:18.300
even as you're, you know,
in the getting out of debt process?

0:21:18.310,0:21:19.380
- Absolutely.
- Yes.

0:21:19.380,0:21:20.213
Yeah.

0:21:20.213,0:21:22.413
- So, you guys paid of $25,000

0:21:22.413,0:21:23.756
- Yes.
- in 18 months.

0:21:23.756,0:21:24.589
- Yes.

0:21:24.589,0:21:25.422
- That's so great.

0:21:25.422,0:21:27.180
So, what are some tips that you guys have

0:21:27.180,0:21:28.300
as you're getting out of debt?

0:21:28.300,0:21:29.250
Because we always talk about, you know,

0:21:29.250,0:21:31.340
earning extra money,
doing whatever you can

0:21:31.340,0:21:33.470
to throw as much money
as possible at your debt

0:21:33.470,0:21:35.250
to become debt-free as
quickly as possible.

0:21:35.250,0:21:36.580
What are some things that you guys did

0:21:36.580,0:21:37.990
to get out of debt quickly?

0:21:37.990,0:21:40.990
- Well, we sold the second car that we had

0:21:40.990,0:21:42.420
and went down to one car.

0:21:42.420,0:21:44.530
So that saves us on gas and insurance.

0:21:44.530,0:21:47.530
And he's able to take
public transit to work,

0:21:47.530,0:21:48.963
and then I use the car.

0:21:49.950,0:21:53.410
And we just started . . .
I work two part-time jobs,

0:21:53.410,0:21:56.750
and so one of those paychecks
was going all to the debt,

0:21:56.750,0:21:59.460
as well as, he's in sales,
so his commission checks

0:21:59.460,0:22:01.410
were also going toward the debt.

0:22:01.410,0:22:05.840
And we stopped eating out,
and just really just watched

0:22:05.840,0:22:07.440
where every dollar was going,

0:22:07.440,0:22:09.400
and really asked ourselves,
do we want it?

0:22:09.400,0:22:11.900
Or do we need this? Can this
wait until we're debt free?

0:22:11.900,0:22:13.337
Yeah, it can.

0:22:13.337,0:22:14.383
You know?

0:22:14.383,0:22:15.900
Impulse buy.
- Delayed gratification.

0:22:15.900,0:22:16.733
- Yep.
- Words that a lot of people

0:22:16.733,0:22:18.185
don't know in today's culture, right?

0:22:18.185,0:22:19.018
- Yep.
- [John] Yeah.

0:22:19.018,0:22:21.420
- I mean so, it's so
impressive because I love

0:22:21.420,0:22:22.610
that you guys started out,

0:22:22.610,0:22:24.250
when you guys were talking
about marriage and fear

0:22:24.250,0:22:25.317
and money and all of this,

0:22:25.317,0:22:27.130
you guys hit the ground running, right?

0:22:27.130,0:22:29.318
The month you said, okay, we said, "I do,"

0:22:29.318,0:22:30.590
this journey began.

0:22:30.590,0:22:34.350
So, for all you really knew
in marriage was sacrificing

0:22:34.350,0:22:35.860
to get out of debt when it comes to money.

0:22:35.860,0:22:37.670
So, what did it feel like

0:22:37.670,0:22:40.400
when you finally made the last payment

0:22:40.400,0:22:43.610
and you were free—you owed

0:22:43.610,0:22:44.790
no money?

0:22:44.790,0:22:47.242
- It just felt like, if we did this,

0:22:47.242,0:22:49.020
what else could we possibly do?

0:22:49.020,0:22:50.720
It flipped something in us.

0:22:50.720,0:22:52.050
A switch just turned on.

0:22:52.050,0:22:54.750
We accomplished something
that we thought, at one point,

0:22:54.750,0:22:57.240
wasn't possible until we actually did it.

0:22:57.240,0:22:59.800
So, for us, it's just
been a huge motivator.

0:22:59.800,0:23:02.570
It's really brought us
together more as a couple also.

0:23:02.570,0:23:04.610
- So, there's someone,
probably watching at home,

0:23:04.610,0:23:06.680
and they're thinking okay,
that's great for that couple.

0:23:06.680,0:23:08.590
I mean, they're both on board. You know,

0:23:08.590,0:23:11.750
it seems like of course
they did it, that's awesome.

0:23:11.750,0:23:13.000
And they're probably, you know, thinking,

0:23:13.000,0:23:15.610
okay, but in my life, I'm not
gonna be able to do that.

0:23:15.610,0:23:17.620
What encouragement would
you give to someone

0:23:17.620,0:23:19.080
who thinks that it is impossible?

0:23:19.080,0:23:22.010
That they have $25,000 in debt,
and it is a mountain to them,

0:23:22.010,0:23:24.624
and they think, I just don't
even know where to begin?

0:23:24.624,0:23:25.457
- Mmm hmm.

0:23:26.660,0:23:29.717
I would say, it doesn't
matter if you have $5,000 or

0:23:29.717,0:23:33.110
$100,000 in debt.

0:23:33.110,0:23:34.770
Debt is debt.

0:23:34.770,0:23:37.040
And you're able to get out of that.

0:23:37.040,0:23:39.920
My wife and I, we're people of faith,

0:23:39.920,0:23:42.950
and I do not believe
that our Heavenly Father

0:23:42.950,0:23:44.900
wants anyone in bondage.

0:23:44.900,0:23:47.760
And that's exactly what
debt is. It's in bondage.

0:23:47.760,0:23:50.187
So, when you think, "I can't do this.

0:23:50.187,0:23:53.300
I can't get out of this debt,"

0:23:53.300,0:23:55.210
there's no way that you can stop

0:23:55.210,0:23:57.890
what God already has
planned for your life.

0:23:57.890,0:24:00.380
All you have to do is
take that first step.

0:24:00.380,0:24:01.770
Life is going to happen.

0:24:01.770,0:24:04.300
Sometimes it's gonna
happen really, really hard.

0:24:04.300,0:24:07.681
But you are always gonna
be stronger after it.

0:24:07.681,0:24:08.600
Right?

0:24:08.600,0:24:09.820
- Yeah.

0:24:09.820,0:24:11.147
- You guys, you're amazing.

0:24:11.147,0:24:12.700
You really, really are.

0:24:12.700,0:24:16.280
I mean the amount of dedication and work

0:24:16.280,0:24:17.610
and intentionality it takes—

0:24:17.610,0:24:19.350
because we always say you can
wander your way into debt,

0:24:19.350,0:24:20.520
you can't just wander your way out.

0:24:20.520,0:24:24.240
I mean, it takes focus
and gazelle intensity.

0:24:24.240,0:24:25.400
And you all did it.

0:24:25.400,0:24:26.460
And you're free.

0:24:26.460,0:24:28.280
No payments. Nothing.

0:24:28.280,0:24:30.330
I mean, could you guys
imagine being their age

0:24:30.330,0:24:31.570
and starting off marriage like that.

0:24:31.570,0:24:32.403
You're like . . .

0:24:32.403,0:24:35.110
I mean, it's absolutely
incredible what you're doing.

0:24:35.110,0:24:37.590
Absolutely changing your family tree.

0:24:37.590,0:24:39.220
And you're in the midst of it.

0:24:39.220,0:24:41.660
And so, I'm just so proud of you guys.

0:24:41.660,0:24:42.500
And I'm so excited. And thank you so much.

0:24:42.500,0:24:44.220
- Thank you so much.
- Thank you so much

0:24:44.220,0:24:45.500
for coming on and sharing your story.

0:24:45.500,0:24:47.260
You guys are awesome.

0:24:47.260,0:24:49.410
Well, I'm gonna bring
Patsy back up on stage,

0:24:49.410,0:24:52.850
and we're gonna answer some
of our audience questions.

0:24:52.850,0:24:53.683
(audience applauding)

0:24:53.683,0:24:56.266
(upbeat music)

0:25:02.651,0:25:04.810
All right, next, we are
going to take some questions

0:25:04.810,0:25:07.050
from our live studio audience.

0:25:07.050,0:25:08.100
Patsy, are you ready?

0:25:08.100,0:25:09.883
- I'm ready for live.

0:25:11.480,0:25:12.700
- All right, and George Kamel is here,

0:25:12.700,0:25:14.830
and he's gonna help
facilitate the questions.

0:25:14.830,0:25:16.460
So, first question.

0:25:16.460,0:25:18.990
- My question is, how do
you overcome the fear

0:25:18.990,0:25:22.240
of inadequacy, or possibly inequality,

0:25:22.240,0:25:24.331
when it comes to, you know,

0:25:24.331,0:25:27.330
someone making more than the other?

0:25:27.330,0:25:29.240
And especially when it
comes to sitting down

0:25:29.240,0:25:30.990
and making those changes in the budget

0:25:30.990,0:25:34.830
when you don't feel like
you have an equal share,

0:25:34.830,0:25:37.020
and so maybe you shouldn't
be saying as much

0:25:37.020,0:25:38.930
in that budget committee meeting?

0:25:38.930,0:25:40.040
- Yeah, that's a good question.

0:25:40.040,0:25:42.830
Because we, I feel like
we deal with this a lot.

0:25:42.830,0:25:44.070
And I don't know if this is your case,

0:25:44.070,0:25:45.670
but even stay-at-home moms I talk to,

0:25:45.670,0:25:46.160
they're like,

0:25:46.160,0:25:48.260
oh, I just feel like I'm
not contributing anything.

0:25:48.260,0:25:51.610
And I would say, that is
such a lie in your head,

0:25:51.610,0:25:53.630
even if you are bringing
in a paycheck and it's less,

0:25:53.630,0:25:55.800
but to think that you're
anything less than the person

0:25:55.800,0:25:58.020
bringing in more money. I mean,
that's all monetary, right?

0:25:58.020,0:26:01.780
I mean, what we bring,
overarching, to the world,

0:26:01.780,0:26:03.800
our giftings, and who we're created to be,

0:26:03.800,0:26:08.057
like you, I've had to learn to
become so comfortable in that.

0:26:08.057,0:26:08.890
And to say okay,

0:26:08.890,0:26:13.150
I am made, and my value is
not placed on a paycheck.

0:26:13.150,0:26:14.950
And so, knowing that, deep in myself,

0:26:14.950,0:26:16.500
I think, is kind of the
foundational principal

0:26:16.500,0:26:18.080
that I always go off of.

0:26:18.080,0:26:21.010
But then, number two, I
think, within the marriage,

0:26:21.010,0:26:25.100
really looking at this
situation as a team effort.

0:26:25.100,0:26:26.080
That you're a team.

0:26:26.080,0:26:28.530
And so, if one person's
making more than the other,

0:26:28.530,0:26:31.340
seeing that as a blessing,
where you're like, go!

0:26:31.340,0:26:32.610
Keep on doing that, right?

0:26:32.610,0:26:34.760
I mean, make more if
you want. That's great.

0:26:34.760,0:26:36.510
Because we can pay off
debt faster and all of it.

0:26:36.510,0:26:37.930
But seeing it as team,

0:26:37.930,0:26:40.040
because when you're looking
more as an individual,

0:26:40.040,0:26:41.970
running on two separate lanes,

0:26:41.970,0:26:43.740
that's when those lies start to creep in.

0:26:43.740,0:26:45.720
But when everything hits
the checking account,

0:26:45.720,0:26:48.630
and you see okay, this
is what we made together,

0:26:48.630,0:26:50.300
and as a team that unity,

0:26:50.300,0:26:51.640
I think is where you have to get to.

0:26:51.640,0:26:53.160
But I think it first starts
with what we talked about

0:26:53.160,0:26:54.200
at the very beginning—

0:26:54.200,0:26:56.940
of understanding your
value is worth so much more

0:26:56.940,0:26:59.120
than what you're bringing in money wise.

0:26:59.120,0:27:00.250
What would you say, Patsy?

0:27:00.250,0:27:04.580
- Oh, I can't begin to tell
you how much it would cost

0:27:04.580,0:27:08.211
if they had to pay for
our housekeeping services,

0:27:08.211,0:27:11.040
(audience laughing)
and our laundry services,

0:27:11.040,0:27:13.600
and our support services,

0:27:13.600,0:27:17.684
and our mothering services,
and our chef services.

0:27:17.684,0:27:19.670
You can't even afford us.

0:27:19.670,0:27:20.750
So, yeah.

0:27:20.750,0:27:21.583
(audience laughing)

0:27:21.583,0:27:25.470
I think it is a match deal.

0:27:25.470,0:27:28.390
And you just have to
grow into the confidence

0:27:28.390,0:27:30.430
of your contribution,

0:27:30.430,0:27:35.140
which I happen to know in
my spirit is significant.

0:27:35.140,0:27:36.882
- Mhmm.
- Amen.

0:27:36.882,0:27:37.950
- Amen.

0:27:37.950,0:27:39.650
And there was a study
with stay-at-home moms,

0:27:39.650,0:27:40.620
I don't know if you are one,

0:27:40.620,0:27:42.450
but apparently, on average,

0:27:42.450,0:27:45.680
that they would be worth close
to half a million dollars.

0:27:45.680,0:27:48.450
From all, like a chauffeur . . .
Like, they broke down

0:27:48.450,0:27:51.840
everything that a mom does,
and the hours, and all of it.

0:27:51.840,0:27:53.250
- Plus tips.

0:27:53.250,0:27:56.250
(audience laughing)

0:27:57.800,0:27:58.940
- Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

0:27:58.940,0:28:00.540
- [George] Great questions.
Let's hear it for Terry.

0:28:00.870,0:28:02.440
- [Rachel] Thanks, Terry.

0:28:02.456,0:28:05.440
(audience applauding)

0:28:05.440,0:28:08.253
- [George] All right, come on
up, sir. And your question . . .

0:28:08.253,0:28:10.890
- How do you plan for the unexpected,

0:28:10.890,0:28:12.410
like losing a child

0:28:15.020,0:28:18.130
with clinical depression or anxiety,

0:28:18.130,0:28:20.650
and then deal with the bills that come in,

0:28:20.650,0:28:24.140
and you don't understand what
they are charging you for

0:28:24.140,0:28:25.863
or if they understand your pain?

0:28:26.939,0:28:30.740
- I really appreciate this question

0:28:30.740,0:28:33.860
and the chance to address it.

0:28:33.860,0:28:36.180
Here is what I have learned.

0:28:36.180,0:28:39.260
We marry opposites.

0:28:39.260,0:28:43.330
So, when we go through a great loss,

0:28:43.330,0:28:48.210
we're going to respond to
that loss in opposite ways.

0:28:48.210,0:28:52.780
And then we're going to be
at our most vulnerable points,

0:28:52.780,0:28:57.780
and here our spouse is behaving
so differently than us

0:28:58.330,0:29:02.130
that we misunderstand, very often,

0:29:02.130,0:29:05.300
that they're carrying
the same level of pain

0:29:05.300,0:29:07.030
and grief that we are.

0:29:07.030,0:29:11.230
So, you can really get in
opposites unless you're equipped

0:29:11.230,0:29:15.520
with an understanding that we're
gonna walk this road differently,

0:29:15.520,0:29:18.210
and we're gonna need some assistance

0:29:18.210,0:29:22.320
to come together in the
healthiest ways we can

0:29:22.320,0:29:25.640
when we're in the midst
of our greatest pain.

0:29:25.640,0:29:28.690
That's what I've seen and learned.

0:29:28.690,0:29:29.830
- Yeah, that's so good.

0:29:29.830,0:29:32.830
And I think on the financial side,

0:29:32.830,0:29:33.663
I always tell people

0:29:33.663,0:29:37.550
not to make any big financial
decisions while in grief.

0:29:37.550,0:29:39.400
And so, while grief can last a long time,

0:29:39.400,0:29:42.580
that first few months,
even that first year,

0:29:42.580,0:29:46.150
just to take time to heal
yourselves, and go to counseling,

0:29:46.150,0:29:49.483
and really work at that loss,

0:29:49.483,0:29:53.450
as healthy and heartbreaking as it is.

0:29:53.450,0:29:55.590
But getting yourselves whole is so key,

0:29:55.590,0:29:58.100
because you can make some
really bad financial decisions

0:29:58.100,0:29:59.270
in the midst of that.

0:29:59.270,0:30:02.650
And so letting yourself heal,
I think, is priority number one.

0:30:02.650,0:30:04.490
And then, number two, when
it comes to the bills

0:30:04.490,0:30:07.200
and not understanding,
get a team around you

0:30:07.200,0:30:08.790
and ask questions.

0:30:08.790,0:30:10.480
We always talk about, even with investing,

0:30:10.480,0:30:11.420
never to put your money

0:30:11.420,0:30:12.780
in something that you don't understand.

0:30:12.780,0:30:13.870
And the same would be true.

0:30:13.870,0:30:15.730
I mean, you have to pay these medical bills,

0:30:15.730,0:30:18.020
but you wanna know what you're
putting your money toward.

0:30:18.020,0:30:21.090
Because the unknown becomes
stressful and scary.

0:30:21.090,0:30:22.530
So, ask questions.

0:30:22.530,0:30:25.059
Get people around you to help
you through that process.

0:30:25.059,0:30:26.110
- Thank you, Juan.

0:30:26.110,0:30:27.101
Let's give it up for him.

0:30:27.101,0:30:29.635
(audience applauding)

0:30:29.635,0:30:31.170
Come on up.

0:30:31.170,0:30:33.570
- My husband and I are on Baby Step 6,

0:30:33.570,0:30:35.643
and we are expecting our first child.

0:30:35.643,0:30:36.700
- Congratulations.

0:30:36.700,0:30:39.490
- And I'm wondering how to balance

0:30:39.490,0:30:42.480
the fear that comes
with all of the what-ifs.

0:30:42.480,0:30:44.370
What if we have a medical crisis?

0:30:44.370,0:30:48.910
What if the child has
disabilities that cost us a lot?

0:30:48.910,0:30:52.060
How do we save an
appropriate amount of money

0:30:52.060,0:30:54.910
and make sure we are protected

0:30:54.910,0:30:57.260
without sabotaging our other goals?

0:30:57.260,0:30:58.093
- Yeah, absolutely.

0:30:58.093,0:31:01.000
I think there is a

0:31:01.000,0:31:03.080
mental shift that happens

0:31:03.080,0:31:04.700
when you do have money just saved.

0:31:04.700,0:31:06.200
You know, there is a
peace of mind that comes.

0:31:06.200,0:31:09.690
Okay, if something unexpected
happens, we have the ability

0:31:09.690,0:31:11.170
to go and fund that.

0:31:11.170,0:31:14.030
And so, I mean, at this
point, I would say throughout

0:31:14.030,0:31:16.330
the entire pregnancy, I
would just save, save, save,

0:31:16.330,0:31:17.410
even on Baby Step 6.

0:31:17.410,0:31:18.660
Just have stockpile of money.

0:31:18.660,0:31:20.510
And then, if everything, you know,

0:31:20.510,0:31:22.760
labor and delivery goes
well, baby's healthy,

0:31:22.760,0:31:24.430
you're healthy, then
you're able to take that

0:31:24.430,0:31:26.350
and then apply that
extra money to your goals

0:31:26.350,0:31:27.250
and what you want.

0:31:28.170,0:31:30.360
But I think also, on the emotional side,

0:31:30.360,0:31:32.770
and Patsy, you probably can
speak to this really well, but,

0:31:32.770,0:31:33.603
there is . . .

0:31:36.840,0:31:38.610
You can't have control as a parent.

0:31:38.610,0:31:39.730
And that's one thing I've learned.

0:31:39.730,0:31:41.810
You can't control your pregnancy.

0:31:41.810,0:31:43.340
You can't control your labor and delivery.

0:31:43.340,0:31:45.670
You can't control the baby's health.

0:31:45.670,0:31:49.360
I mean, you are so out of
control. And for a control freak,

0:31:49.360,0:31:51.550
it is a scary place to be, yes.

0:31:51.550,0:31:54.200
And so, I think learning to let go.

0:31:54.200,0:31:56.530
And for me, I'm like, I have
to keep my hands like this.

0:31:56.530,0:31:57.400
I do this with my money.

0:31:57.400,0:32:00.670
I do this with my relationships—even
with my own children.

0:32:00.670,0:32:01.680
Because even what Juan just said.

0:32:01.680,0:32:03.897
I mean, that's like my
greatest fear, truly, in life.

0:32:03.897,0:32:04.730
Because we're talking about fear.

0:32:04.730,0:32:05.580
I was joking earlier in the episode.

0:32:05.580,0:32:08.030
But I mean, that would . . .
I can't even imagine

0:32:08.030,0:32:09.230
how people lose a child.

0:32:10.434,0:32:12.784
I'm like postpartum,
obviously. It really does.

0:32:14.080,0:32:15.140
That terrifies me.

0:32:15.140,0:32:17.910
And so, I've had to learn
not to function in that fear,

0:32:17.910,0:32:20.580
and to say, okay, everything
God has given me is a gift.

0:32:20.580,0:32:23.320
At the end of the day, He loves us.

0:32:23.320,0:32:26.020
And His plan for them is so much greater

0:32:26.020,0:32:27.610
than what I could even imagine.

0:32:27.610,0:32:30.297
- And Scripture says to think on those things

0:32:30.297,0:32:32.397
that are good and true and pure and just

0:32:32.397,0:32:34.320
and lovely and of good report.

0:32:34.320,0:32:38.900
So, one thing I find
that I can do for myself

0:32:38.900,0:32:41.860
when the what-if-onlys hit me,

0:32:41.860,0:32:43.800
is to write some prayers.

0:32:43.800,0:32:46.100
So, saying what I know is true.

0:32:46.100,0:32:48.510
And I just begin

0:32:48.510,0:32:51.420
to find my spirits lift

0:32:51.420,0:32:54.330
and me step out of the cycle of fear.

0:32:54.330,0:32:56.680
But it takes time.

0:32:56.680,0:33:00.120
Once you've done all the
things you know you can do

0:33:00.120,0:33:04.103
to set your situation
as sound as possible,

0:33:05.466,0:33:07.150
then we get to trust.

0:33:07.150,0:33:08.595
Isn't that fun?

0:33:08.595,0:33:10.880
(audience laughing)

0:33:10.880,0:33:12.240
- Thank you. And congratulations, by the way.

0:33:12.240,0:33:13.506
- [George] Thank you so much.
Let's hear it for her.

0:33:13.506,0:33:15.397
(audience applauding)

0:33:18.220,0:33:20.310
Last but not least, your name?

0:33:20.310,0:33:21.340
- Cameron.

0:33:21.340,0:33:22.440
- And your question?

0:33:22.440,0:33:23.870
- So, hello. How are you doing?

0:33:23.870,0:33:26.120
So, April 1, my lovely bride and I,

0:33:26.120,0:33:28.960
we will be three years into our marriage.

0:33:28.960,0:33:32.320
And so, we've been at Baby
Step 2 this entire time.

0:33:32.320,0:33:34.830
Before we got married, big Dave guy.

0:33:34.830,0:33:36.650
Religiously listened to it every day.

0:33:36.650,0:33:38.550
So, when we got married, I'm like, hey,

0:33:38.550,0:33:40.150
we both gotta work two jobs.

0:33:40.150,0:33:41.783
We gotta get out of this debt.

0:33:43.480,0:33:45.200
We can be out in about two years.

0:33:45.200,0:33:48.170
So, while we were engaged, she was like,

0:33:48.170,0:33:49.780
you know, eventually I wanna
be a stay-at-home mom.

0:33:49.780,0:33:52.460
I'm like, well, you know, I
saw my parents work two jobs.

0:33:52.460,0:33:53.960
And my mom would come home and would cook.

0:33:53.960,0:33:57.000
And seemingly, the house,
I thought it was okay.

0:33:57.000,0:33:58.920
Some things got broke
in my parents marriage,

0:33:58.920,0:34:02.010
and so I didn't understand
the whole totality of that.

0:34:02.010,0:34:06.050
But I just assumed society
says both parents work,

0:34:06.050,0:34:08.530
have kids, you manage.

0:34:08.530,0:34:12.470
So, throughout our marriage, fast-forward,

0:34:12.470,0:34:15.610
job fluctuations, income fluctuations.

0:34:15.610,0:34:19.710
There's some fear that we'll
never get out of debt now.

0:34:19.710,0:34:22.960
Two-and-a-half years has turned
into oh, well, two more years.

0:34:22.960,0:34:25.453
You know, we have
struggled with fertility,

0:34:26.290,0:34:29.050
you know, depression at
times with both of us,

0:34:29.050,0:34:32.208
different unspoken and unknown illnesses.

0:34:32.208,0:34:34.370
So, we're trying to get out of debt,

0:34:34.370,0:34:36.930
but there's fear that we
just can't see that light

0:34:36.930,0:34:37.860
at the end of the tunnel.

0:34:37.860,0:34:39.300
- Yeah. Absolutely.

0:34:39.300,0:34:42.720
I mean, it's so hard,
because for some stories,

0:34:42.730,0:34:44.170
you know, it feels like a sprint.

0:34:44.170,0:34:45.730
And for others, it feels like a marathon.

0:34:45.730,0:34:48.300
And you guys are kind
of in that marathon race

0:34:48.300,0:34:49.760
that you're feeling of
getting out of debt.

0:34:49.760,0:34:52.750
And I think having a goal, like possibly,

0:34:52.750,0:34:54.080
you know, being a stay-at-home mom,

0:34:54.080,0:34:56.350
and what that story
looks like for you guys.

0:34:56.350,0:34:59.290
I think it's when to say,
okay, yes. When this happens,

0:34:59.290,0:35:02.100
this is our goal, and
this is one of our whys

0:35:02.100,0:35:03.230
of getting out of debt.

0:35:03.230,0:35:05.807
For kids, possibly infertility,
you know doing IVF.

0:35:05.807,0:35:07.580
I mean all of that. You know, going into that,

0:35:07.580,0:35:09.980
maybe it's adoption. Whatever
it looks like for you guys

0:35:09.980,0:35:13.170
in your story, understanding
your why of getting out of debt

0:35:13.170,0:35:14.810
starts to become more motivating.

0:35:14.810,0:35:16.670
And so looking at the end goal and saying,

0:35:16.670,0:35:17.740
okay, we're doing all of this,

0:35:17.740,0:35:20.430
and we're sacrificing
everything to get there,

0:35:20.430,0:35:23.210
and to know that the
sacrifice is short term.

0:35:23.210,0:35:24.310
Just like the couple up here earlier.

0:35:24.310,0:35:25.670
They said it, and it's true.

0:35:25.670,0:35:27.860
You know, it's only
for short-term purposes.

0:35:27.860,0:35:31.540
And short term might be
two more years, right?

0:35:31.540,0:35:32.980
Whatever that looks like in your life,

0:35:32.980,0:35:35.260
but it's not gonna be forever.

0:35:35.260,0:35:37.670
And I just think, what a
beautiful place it could be if,

0:35:37.670,0:35:40.030
you know, you guys are debt-free,

0:35:40.030,0:35:43.620
and a child comes into your
life, and it all works, right?

0:35:43.620,0:35:46.420
And she's able to stay home and be there.

0:35:46.420,0:35:50.980
And I think that, yeah, it is
such a huge job as a parent,

0:35:50.980,0:35:54.130
and I think that that's
a huge why for you guys

0:35:54.130,0:35:56.430
to keep you motivated
for getting out of debt.

0:35:57.743,0:36:01.200
- (clears throat) Excuse
me. You choked me up.

0:36:01.200,0:36:03.510
Struggle is good for us.

0:36:03.510,0:36:06.320
Struggle is where we learn who we are

0:36:06.320,0:36:07.780
and who we aren't yet

0:36:07.780,0:36:11.490
so we can become the
very thing we'd like to.

0:36:11.490,0:36:16.010
Struggling together can
help deepen relationship.

0:36:16.010,0:36:20.260
Or it can help separate how
we feel about each other.

0:36:20.260,0:36:22.200
It's our decision.

0:36:22.200,0:36:24.028
And Les and I,

0:36:24.028,0:36:26.800
when he had his leg removed,

0:36:26.800,0:36:28.800
we had to go through adjustments.

0:36:28.800,0:36:32.340
We had to choose how we
were gonna think about that.

0:36:32.340,0:36:35.807
And I would say, yes this is, and
this is hard,

0:36:35.807,0:36:38.340
but let's look at this and this.

0:36:38.340,0:36:41.270
You can go out and make friends.

0:36:41.270,0:36:42.647
He said, how am I gonna do that?

0:36:42.647,0:36:44.707
And I said, well, you can't drive a car

0:36:44.707,0:36:46.767
because you're having
these vision problems,

0:36:46.767,0:36:48.740
but you can still drive

0:36:48.740,0:36:50.937
your golf cart in the neighborhood.

0:36:50.937,0:36:52.630
Go find a friend.

0:36:52.630,0:36:53.463
(audience laughing)

0:36:53.463,0:36:56.940
That's your assignment
today. Go find a friend.

0:36:56.940,0:37:01.050
And to my great delight,
he got on there, came back,

0:37:01.050,0:37:02.350
he said, I found one.

0:37:02.350,0:37:03.435
(audience laughing)

0:37:03.435,0:37:06.160
He's picking me up Thursday.
We're going to lunch.

0:37:06.160,0:37:09.500
So, sometimes having a
friend in the midst of it

0:37:09.500,0:37:13.890
is good too, because it gives
you a different conversation

0:37:13.890,0:37:17.390
than the one you're gonna
have between you and her,

0:37:17.390,0:37:22.390
where you still may be on edge
about agreeing on everything,

0:37:22.540,0:37:25.860
or you both may be too
sad that day to deal with

0:37:25.860,0:37:27.730
the other one's sadness.

0:37:27.730,0:37:31.470
It's good to have a friend
that you can talk to.

0:37:31.470,0:37:36.470
So, get on your golf cart,
and you can go find one.

0:37:36.700,0:37:39.290
- That's great. Yeah, community. Huge.

0:37:39.290,0:37:40.970
Having people surrounding
you, praying for you,

0:37:40.970,0:37:43.420
walking with you, knowing
you on a deep level

0:37:43.420,0:37:44.610
and your hurt and your pain.

0:37:44.610,0:37:46.730
I think it's remarkable.

0:37:46.730,0:37:48.380
Yep, absolutely.

0:37:48.380,0:37:52.500
- And God designed for us to
be involved with other people.

0:37:52.500,0:37:57.500
We're not supposed to be one
strong island unto ourself.

0:37:57.610,0:38:01.670
But it is not weakness
to say to another person,

0:38:01.670,0:38:04.533
I'm struggling, and I could use a friend.

0:38:05.540,0:38:08.090
- Thank you, Cameron, so
much for your question.

0:38:08.090,0:38:10.360
Patsy, thanks for coming back up here.

0:38:10.360,0:38:13.220
And I just wanna thank you
guys so much for watching.

0:38:13.220,0:38:15.410
We had an incredible show
today, incredible guests,

0:38:15.410,0:38:19.280
Patsy Clairmont, John Andre
and Joanna and their story.

0:38:19.280,0:38:20.860
So, thank you guys so much for watching.

0:38:20.860,0:38:23.690
Thanks to our live studio
audience for being here.

0:38:23.690,0:38:25.780
And remember to take control of your money

0:38:25.780,0:38:27.907
and create a life you love.

0:38:27.907,0:38:28.774
(audience applauding)

0:38:28.774,0:38:31.357
(upbeat music)