The 7-Step Plan to Live Debt Free


Transcript

- Well, it's a new year, it's a new you. And this episode is all about taking control of your money with the baby steps. Can you believe it, you guys? It is 2019. We are a week into the new year and it is just already so fantastic. So, a lot of you are going to have some New Year's resolutions that you're gonna be working towards, and some of them are gonna be some financial resolutions. In fact, the second most popular resolution in America is paying off debt. So if that is you, you have come to the right place. Because for 25 years, there is a proven plan that has helped millions of people get out of debt, live on a budget, fund retirement, fund college, pay off their house, and be able to be crazy generous. I mean, all the things. And I'm dedicating this entire episode to this plan. The plan is called the baby steps. And I'm really excited about it because I'm gonna bring on two special guests to help me out. You're probably not gonna be very shocked on who they are. That's right, Dave Ramsey is coming over and Mr. Chris Hogan. So, we're gonna be sitting down together, walking through this plan. Now some of you, you have completed the plan. You're just like being incredibly generous, making all the money. You're doing awesome. Some of you are in the middle of this journey. Maybe you're paying off debt or you're funding your emergency fund. And others of you haven't even started. But no matter where you are, you're going to enjoy this episode. But I can't stress it enough, for you to win, you have to have a plan. And the baby steps are seven steps that are so easy to understand, so you're not gonna be confused in this episode, you're not gonna be like what? No, very easy to understand. But here's the kicker, it's hard to do. Alright, this is the time in the show, Real Talk with Rachel, where it's usually me talking about how I decided to quit the marathon, quit training, 'cause running is stupid for me. It's true. Or maybe about me purchasing a workout app that was a hundred dollars that I've never used. You know, all the things that I've messed up on, which I'm great sharing. But I decided that this Real Talk, it's gonna be about you. Because you need to have Real Talk with yourself. That's right, if you're sitting there watching this and you're like, I am miserable financially. I feel like we're living paycheck to paycheck, we're not making progress. I need something different. Well, guess what? This is your year. But here's the deal, if you don't like where you've been and you don't like the results, you have to change. That is the definition of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You have to do something different. But that is going to be very uncomfortable for you and it's gonna be hard. But it is worth it. None of us like change. When you get in a habit of something, changing is really, really hard. But again, in order to make better results for your money, you have to change. So I want you to look at yourself in the mirror and you say, okay, I'm doing this. I'm gonna do something different. And here's the deal, if you feel overwhelmed, why don't you try this for the next six months. In July, if you hate this plan and you like your old life better, go back to your old life. Listen, I'm not mad about it. But I guarantee you, 99% of you are gonna be like, this is the most free I have ever felt with my money because suddenly you have learned to control your money and your money doesn't control you. So, that's the deal you guys. New year, new you. We're gonna change. Well, you're still here, so we're gonna begin the journey with baby step one, which is save a thousand dollars in the bank as a starter emergency fund. This is key 'cause this is going to be your cushion between you and life before baby step two. So, this is a very important step. But here's the deal, this is probably the easiest step of the baby steps, but it's also the hardest. It's the easiest because it's a thousand dollars. Like, you can do this within a few weeks or a few months. Like, I want you to do this so, so quickly. You know, work extra if you have to, sell something, do whatever you can. Scrape up a thousand dollars and put it away. That's all you gotta do. But it's gonna be the hardest step because that means that you are now entering into a journey that you have never experienced before and you're actually saying out loud, okay, I'm doing this. I'm going to be committed to this change. But this thousand dollars, it is going to be like the pat on your back going forward because once you can accomplish this, you're gonna have more money is savings than majority of Americans and it's gonna feel so incredible. So, how do you get a thousand dollars? Well, here are 10 quick ways for you to save a thousand dollars. Number one, get an extra job. Bring in some extra income. Maybe you wanna drive for Uber, wait tables, or maybe you have a skill like photography and you can charge for it. Whatever it is, find that extra income, work extra. Number two, work overtime at your current job. Make some money. Number three, sell something. You guys, we have so much crap in our lives and in our house that we don't need, that we don't use. Get rid of it! And then, after you're further along in the steps, maybe if you wanna go back and buy something else, you can. But for now, get rid of it and sell it and make money. Number four, stop eating out for a couple of months. That's right, restaurants, quick place to spend money. Number five, get rid of cable. Number six, drop memberships and subscriptions that you aren't using like Spotify or your gym membership. If you're not using these things, drop them. Don't pay for them every month. Number seven, Airbnb your house while you're out of town. Number eight, shop your insurance rates. You can save a lotta money doing this. Check out our ELP program by clicking the link below. Number nine, reevaluate your cell phone plan. Look and say, okay, are we using all the data? Maybe we can change something, maybe we can go get a cheaper plan and save a lotta money that way. And number 10, buy generic brands. Medication, makeup, food, all the things. Make sure that you are saving money that way. And, to help you keep track of the thousand dollars you're saving for and to help you reach your other financial goals as you pay off debt, make sure to download my goal tracker. So click the link below for that. Alright, coming up next is the man who created the baby steps, my dad, Dave Ramsey, to talk us through baby step two. Well, welcome back to the show.

- Wow, I'm here.

- I know, you're back. Thanks, you couldn't stay away. I know, I know.

- Well, Rachel Cruze Show calls, you come.

- It is true, people, it is true. So, we're on to baby step two and baby step two is paying off all of your debt except for your house. And you do this by using the debt snowball, and that is where you list out all of your debts, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, pay minimum payments on everything, and you pay off the smallest debt first. And so, we find that people gain incredible traction and they really win with this method. And, on average, people are getting completely out of debt, except for their house, in 18 to 24 months. So, it's pretty powerful, this whole idea. So, when you started this whole program. I mean, you're like the godfather of the baby steps and all of the things. So what caused you, first and foremost, to be like, yeah, you need to be debt free. Like, what's the point of even being debt free? Those people watching that are like, eh? Is it that big of a deal? What would you say?

- Well, I mean, I saw in the bible that it says the borrower is slave to the lender, and we had just gone broke and lost everything because of that. And so, just from a risk management standpoint, that's where it started, because it's like pain avoidance 'cause we've been through so much crap, you know? And then the next thing that happened was I started realizing you actually, your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. And when you don't give it to someone else, you can use it to become an everyday millionaire. You can use it to change your family tree. You can use it to be outrageously generous. But when you give it all to Countrywide and Citibank and Lexus in the form of payments and Mastercard and Visa and American Distress, and so on. You know, you don't have any money. And so it's kind of a math thing that you're giving up your power, your mathematical power to build wealth.

- It's so good, and there's such freedom. We've talked about it on the show. Not only mathematically and financially when you don't have debt and you don't have payments, but emotionally and spiritually. It changes your whole life, your whole being when you have no payments. When you don't owe anyone anything, you do have this sense of freedom that you get to choose things in your life that you otherwise wouldn't be able to if you had to go to that job and make that money just to pay the bills.

- And, you know, I kinda thought the first time, my first understanding of the borrower is slave to the lender was the math thing.

- Yep.

- That when you give all your money to someone else, you're kinda owned by them, right? I got that part. But what I didn't realize is, slaves don't have choices. Slaves, it's tough to have relationships 'cause people are pulling you around. You know, you're going to a job you hate everyday, putting up a toxic environment just to pay freaking bills. You know, slavery has societal, relational, spiritual, not to mention mathematical, implications. And so that scripture really does have a lot of layers. You can just keep peeling 'em off and then it keeps going.

- Yeah, absolutely. So, when you look at the math side of doing the debt snowball and paying it off smallest to largest, I've heard the argument over and over again. We should pay off the highest interest rate first 'cause mathematically that's correct. And we laugh all the time, like, well, if you're doing math, you wouldn't be in credit card debt. So math doesn't always apply to the situation. But 25 years ago, when you started this and you fought against that, what made you do smallest to largest? What was kinda the aha moment?

- Well, what we realized was the problem is not math. And if the problem's not math, you can't fix it with math. The problem is the person in the mirror. And so, what happened was, the first thing I ever did, you know, in terms of interacting with the public, trying to help people, was one-on-one coaching. And we would have people come in that were in foreclosure and they were behind on their credit card bills, and I would get everything arranged in their budget to where they could get caught up and then they would be okay and avoid their bankruptcy. It was a one-on-one coaching session, that's all we had.

- Yep.

- And then I would see 'em six months later and I would go, "How's it going?" Oh, we filed bankruptcy. What? You know, I had all the math done for you. And it wasn't a math thing.

- Yep.

- It was a behavior thing. The stuff that was going on in their lives was still going on in their lives, and if you don't change the person, the math doesn't change. When people change, numbers change. That's what Hogan says. Not when numbers change, people change. It doesn't go that way. So, what we figured out was that personal finance, and we say it all the time, is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge. The problem is not math. The problem is me, I'm the geek, I'm the guy. When the problem is chocolate chip cookies, if I'm trying to lose weight, you know? So we figured out the chocolate chip cookies are not the problem. It's the guy eating the cookies. It's 80% behavior, it's 20% head knowledge. You know we really, you cannot work out enough to lose weight if you eat an elephant. I mean, you just can't do it. And the same thing is true here with your money situation. You know, you cannot make enough money to outearn your stupidity. I tried it. I'm good at making money, but you have got to control the person in your mirror. And once we understand that, then we go, well if we're gonna solve this, if it's a psychological behavior problem, then we're gonna solve it with psychological behavior answer, solution. And so that's why the debt snowball works. And all these other theories, and all these people who wanna talk about this are just people that don't wanna do it. They don't wanna do the hard work of dealing with the person in your mirror. That's harder work than trying to find some math thing that fixes it. Math thing's not gonna fix it. It's not gonna fix it. The thing that's gonna fix it is when you fix you. That's it.

- And yes, it is. It is so true, but the hard thing is, is no one likes change, right? You've been doing the same thing over and over again and you get in this rhythm in life, and to get out of that orbit and to do something different is hard and it's intimidating. So, what would you say to someone that's like, I know I need to, but I don't even know what to do, if I can even do this. Like, what would you say to someone?

- List from smallest to largest, when you pass the little one, you'll go, maybe I can.

- Yep.

- And then, when the second one goes Maybe I can And your hope starts to increase because your successful level increases.

- Yep.

- You know, the first time the child rides the bicycle and you let go of the seat, maybe I can. That's all it is. And it's a behavior thing because you're building confidence and hope and you're saying, this system will work. Maybe finally I can get control of my money.

- Yep, it's so good and I think when you get to the point in your life, and we say this over and over again, that you say like, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. 'Cause I do talk to some people, like, yeah, I kinda sorta think I wanna kinda get out of debt, maybe, kind of. I'm like, yeah, that's probably not gonna happen because getting out of debt's hard, right? It takes sacrifice, it takes intentionality. So what would you say to someone? 'Cause a lot of people watching are in the middle of getting out of debt. So what encouragement would you give them?

- It's hard. But it's worth it. It's hard, but it's worth it. You know, putting up with your spouse at times is hard, but Sharon and I've been married 37 years. It's worth it. I get to play grand babies, my babies, and you know. It's worth it to pay a price to win. It's worth it, but it's hard. If it was easy, everybody be rich.

-So good, so good. Okay you guys, that's it! Baby step two, you heard it straight from the horse's mouth. Is that a saying?

- Could be the mouth.

- Is that a saying? So good, okay. Well, we're gonna bring you back on the show later on the episode to talk about another baby step, so thanks for being here. Once you are completely debt free except for your house, the next step is baby step three, and that is getting three to six months of expenses saved in the bank. A question I get asked a lot is like, well, should we have like three months of expenses or should we be like more like six? And I'm like, it doesn't really matter. Wherever you wanna go. And I'll be honest, it's funny. Usually a lot of men land at like the three month mark. Like, once they get three months, they're like, alright, let's move on, baby step four. A lot of women are like, I like to be more around the six month mark. Women's number one financial fear is the lack of security. So naturally, they're going to lean more towards the six month. I know I do. We actually have an emergency fund for our emergency fund 'cause that way I just wanna make sure we have a ton in savings. It just makes me feel better, so I personally lean more towards six. Winston's probably like most guys. He'd probably lean more towards three. But whatever you wanna do. Now again, these expenses are your operating expenses. This is not you, you know, budgeting. Okay, if I wanna go on a huge fashion shopping spree or we're gonna go on vacation. No, no, no, your operating expenses. Like, what is the amount of money you need to have to keep the lights on, to keep food on the table, to keep things operating like they would be otherwise. That is what the emergency fund is for. It's there in case of a job loss, it's there in case of a medical emergency. Whatever comes up that is unexpected and a big emergency, this fund is there to catch you. It's like your major safety net between you and life. And you have to think of this as insurance, not an investment. Say it with me through your phone or computer. Insurance, not an investment. You're gonna get a pile of money saved in the bank and some of you out there are gonna be like, oh my gosh, we could invest this and make so much more money. It's just sitting there, making nothing. Listen, that is what it is for. You have to think of this as insurance. 'Cause you wanna be able to keep it liquid, you wanna be able to get to it quickly. So, I would recommend having this in a money market account, or even you could do a traditional savings account. But it needs to be there so that you can get to it quickly. I went into my Facebook community and I found some people that are in baby step three, and this is what they said. "It feels like my worries dissipated "because of no debt life "and the fact I was able to accomplish "baby step two on schedule. "Losing extra overtime to spend with my kids "doesn't bother me anymore. "That was the very surprising experience I had. "I listen to the podcast everyday, "write on my journal, do my budget religiously, "and being intentionally positive 98% of the time. "Single mom of two here and it can be done." Melrose, you're killing it. Such a great job. Tiffany said, "We stayed motivated by sacrificing a lot "so that we could see a lot of progress being made quickly. "We looked at our budget often "and forecasted when we would get the next $10,000 paid off "and when we would be completely debt free. "It feels great knowing that "we were on our way to building wealth now "instead of just paying for bad decisions." Guys, baby step three, it is possible. It is possible, and could you just sit there and imagine having no debt and having three to six months of expenses saved in the bank. Incredible, it put you at a completely different place mentally and financially. It's so great. You can do this. Alright, coming up next is the man with the voice of God, Chris Hogan. Welcome back, Hogan.

- Thank you, it's good to be with you.

- Thank you! Seriously, last time you were on, everyone raved. They loved you, so I was like gotta get him back.

- Oh, they're so nice. You're nice, you all are very nice.

- Okay, so now we're in the process of the baby steps where you are completely debt free, you have a fully funded emergency fund. So baby steps one, two, and three you do individually. Now baby steps four, five, and six you do all together.

- Rachel, thank you for for pointing that out because a lot of people get confused there. So it is important, you're doing four, five, and six at the same time.

- But in this order. So, baby step four is--

- Yes, this is where you're investing 15% of your household income into retirement types of accounts. Rachel, that can be 401s, 403s, IRAs, or Roth IRAs. It's very important to set that money aside each and every month. So, you wanna sign up to where it's done automatically, it's not anything you have to think of. You can do that in your HR department as you enroll in your 401 But listen, make sure you get with an investment professional to guide you. They're a lot of options of things that you can invest in, but you wanna make sure you're picking the right things. But as you do this 15% of household income, overtime what'll is is you'll start to build wealth. This is not money for a down payment on a home, this is not money for a wedding, and Rachel, it's not money for a vacation. So let that money sit there and grow for you. I promise you, it will put you on the path to becoming an everyday millionaire.

- Because if someone cashes out that money early, what happens?

- Well, there's a lot of penalties. I mean, I tell people you could lose 40% of more of that money and taxes and penalties. So, you don't wanna do that. You wanna leave that money alone, and if there's something you're wanting to save up for, get an extra job, work overtime, get some cash. But this is a dream fund. A lot of people don't understand, with the 401and 403, what you're trying to do is save up enough money to replace your paycheck later. So the money you're putting in will become your paycheck later in life. But we need to let it sit there. Rachel, money has two best friends.

- Ooh, BFFs.

- Time and compound interest. So when you put money in your 401 and let it sit, it'll grow.

- So good. So that kind of reminded me that you guys, if you're on baby steps one, two, or three, that means you are not funding retirement. You're stopping retirement. Now that's gonna freak some people out 'cause, especially people that have been doing it for a while.

- It is.

- The fact that they have to stop, they're gonna be okay, right?

- Right, oh you're gonna be okay and what I've told people, 'cause a lot of people have said that. Chris, I don't wanna stop. I said, "Okay, don't think of it as stopping. "Let's pause." We're gonna pause the 401so you can give all your effort and attention to attacking the debt. And so it helps them to be able to see it. And someone said, "Well Chris, I feel bad." I go, "Yes, feel bad about the debt. "So move focus forward faster "so you can start investing again."

- That's good, so baby step four, you're taking care of yourself with retirement. And then you go onto baby step five, which is funding your kids' college. So, there's a couple of ways you can do this. You can do it through an ESA, which is an Educational Savings Account. And what this is great because it grows tax free. Now, there is a limit of how much you can put in per year and an income limit. So if you make too much money, you may not qualify for an ESA. But if you do, what's great is you look at it and you say, okay, let's just say you have a newborn baby and you start putting $2,000 in every year. By the time they're 18 years old, they're gonna have $120,000 to be able to go to college. I mean, it's phenomenal. So starting early. Now, some people, you're like, okay, that's great if I had a newborn, but I have a 10 year old. So if you do the math that way, if you fund it for just 10 years, let's say, maybe eight years, it's gonna be around $38,000, which is still a great headstart into college savings. But, if you can't do the ESA, again because you wanna put more money in your college account, your kid's college account, or you make too much money to qualify, then you can look into 529 plans. And a 529 plan, I would say, like your retirement, you're gonna want to go and talk to someone who's a professional in this 'cause there are some bad plans out there.

- There are. I don't like the state directed ones. State directed means they're picking out what you can invest in. I want people to have freedom and options to be able to pick what works for them.

- Yes, so talk to a SmartVestor Pro for all the things with retirement and when you're starting to fun your kids' college. But, the beautiful thing about college too is that if you are at the point and you're like, wow, I have a junior in high school or a senior in high school and we aren't even on baby, you know, we're doing baby step four and we're just now starting baby step five. You can still help your kids go to college debt free because people can still go to college debt free today.

- Oh, they really can.

- It is true.

- And Rachel, guess what? I tell people all the time. They go, well my kid, I don't want them to work while they're going to school. Well, listen to me. Yes they can. They can work and go to school at night or they can work at night and go to school during the day.

- Or part time! I mean, yes, it's insane, I know. And actually, students that work 20 hours a week graduate with higher GPAs than students that don't work. Isn't that fascinating?

- Well, and Rachel they learn time management, they learn life skills that they're gonna have to apply when they graduate. Oh, and by the way, there are scholarships and grants out there too, Rachel. I've heard you tell people about that for years.

- Yes, that's free money. And then also parents out there, number piece of advice through all of this if you have a student going to school soon is school choice. Picking a school you can afford. Private colleges on average are costing $26,000 a year in tuition versus an in state school, which is around $14,000. Community college are sometimes free depending on your state and even as low as $5,000. So, check out those options. Don't just assume, okay, my kids have to go to a private college or this great college to succeed. That's a lie, that's not true. So, you're funding, again, retirement with baby step four, and then the extra money you have, you're putting towards your kid's college in an ESA or a 529 plan. And then you're gonna put any other extra money you have towards the house, which is baby step six.

- Yes, baby step six is about attacking and paying off the house. You know, a lot of people say, Chris, the American dream is to buy a home. No, the American dream is to own a home. There's a difference between buying and owning. Buying is where you've signed the paperwork, right? I'm a former banker, I know that. But owning it is where you've attacked it and paid it off. So, a couple of things I wanna tell people. As you're doing baby steps four and five, you're saving for your future, you're saving for college, I want you to throw any extra money toward the house. An extra two to $300 a month will make a big difference in you attacking and paying off the home. And a lot of people, Rachel, have never envisioned them owning their home, right? And this is where you have it. They'll send you the deed in the mail and that means you don't owe on it anymore. So, how do you get there? You have to do it intentionally. So that's looking at it. Be aware and budgeting is absolutely crucial. And so if you're out there right now and you've got a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, I want you to go get a quote on refinancing to a 15 year fix.

- That's good.

- The payment's gonna go up four to $500, but we're talking about a difference of 15 years, Rachel. This is a big deal. So, for the people that are intentional, attacking and paying off the house is a big step. But imagine this. Let's say you're behind saving for retirement a little bit. Imagine your mortgage payment not leaving you, right? Imagine whatever it is you're paying right now on a mortgage payment not leaving you, but you're able to save more toward college, and then invest more right for your future. It would allow you to catch up exponentially. So, attacking and paying off the house is a huge step. Don't listen to the people out there that say, hold on to the mortgage for the tax surge.

- For the tax surge, okay? That's a big lie. So explain that.

- Yeah, it makes my hair grow. It makes my hair grow. It gets me riled up because it's not truthful and I want people to know the facts. You wanna pay off that home and own it and remove the risk out of your life. If you own it, nobody can ever foreclose on it. Nobody can take it away from you. So I wanna encourage people to stay on the path. It leads you to progress.

- Yes, and majority of people with the whole tax deduction thing, mathematically speaking, you're going to be paying more in interest than you would it not being written off, so.

- Oh, it is. And you have to fully itemize to be able to deduct that. And you can only deduct it for a certain number of years. So anyway, it's an excuse to keep a mortgage.

- Pay off the house, people. Pay off the house.

- Pay off the house, free up your money, and be able to save for college, be able to save for your future, or be able to take a trip and enjoy it, right? I want people to keep more of their own money.

- So good. So you guys, if you could imagine being at the end of that step, which means you have no debt including your house, you're funding your retirement, and you're funding your kid's college, you have an emergency fund. Like all the things are taken care of. At that point, you might even be self-insured, meaning that if something were to happen to you, you have everything taken care of. So you may not even need life insurance. But a lot of you are probably not there yet and that's okay. But while you're working through the baby steps, you need to make sure you do have life insurance. And with the correct amount of coverage that you need, isn't that right?

- Oh, it is. Life insurance is absolutely important. It's a part of making sure that your family is protected. And I also wanna encourage people to make sure you're getting some quotes. Look at this and understand, find out if you can save money because that saved money creates margin in your budget, and that allows you to be able to do more in other areas. Rachel, it boils down to being more intentional with your money.

- Yeah, it's so good. And Winston and I use Zander Insurance because they make it so easy. And you use Zander too, don't you?

- I sure do.

- Yeah, they're so great. They will do all the work for you to make sure that you're getting the best rates possible. So we recommend getting 10 to 12 times your annual income. So make sure to go to zander.com or click the link below. Alright, coming up next, I'm gonna bring my dad back on to join us and we're gonna finish out with baby step seven. The last and final baby step.

- It's gonna be fun.

- It's a good one. So our big saying around here is live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. So our goal for you is not just to win with money, but to be able to win with money so that you can become an incredibly generous person. So, you all are here to talk about probably the most fun baby step.

- I think so.

- So at this point people are completely out of debt, including their house. They don't even have a house payment. They're funding retirement, putting money away for kids' college. And now there's nothing left but to really build wealth and be incredibly generous. So, that's pretty fun, right?

- It puts you in a position to have that kind of fun.

- Yes, so let's talk about the fun you can have and the importance of giving and truly living with that open hand.

- Well, for the first thing that happens, for Sharon and I when we finally got there, is this weird thing happens. You're like, I'm gonna be okay. And you can take your eyes off of view. And as soon as you do, you know what you see? Other people. And you see this need. And so the first thing that happened with us was just some random acts of giving. But and then it's like, you know, I just had this blast, like Christmas the other day, right? You know, a month ago our company, we gave $800,000 to our team. A thousand dollars each for Christmas for 800 people. But I mean, it was fun! I had fun! I did not like go, oh, I hate doing this. It was fun because we had the money and everybody had a blast. And, you know, you just don't find people upset about generosity.

- It's so true. And Chris, I feel like we talk about the joy of giving because really giving gives you this amount of joy that you can't get anywhere else.

- It really does. I mean Rachel, when you put yourself in a position to be able to be aware, when the Lord prompts you to give or to do something and you have that margin, you're able to do it with joy. And giving has a two way blessing. You bless the person that receives it, but you also feel a blessing.

- Yes.

- Absolutely.

- And I'll never forget a time that I was at Waffle House with one of my boys, and met the waitress. Turns out she was about five months pregnant. Her fiance had broken up with her. I mean, she had gone through some life stuff. And I felt in that moment that I knew what I was gonna do. I knew I was gonna leave a big tip. Well, my son saw this dollar amount that I put out and I said, "Alright buddy, let's go." He goes, "No, dad, we gotta wait on your change." And I'm like, "No, no." Now, you all know I can't whisper, right? I've been banned in 48 of the public libraries in America. But I'm trying to get him out before she comes back because have you ever had somebody try to block your blessing? You know, you try to do something nice?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

- Well, it creates awkwardness, right? So anyway, I'm like, little boy, if you don't get up I'm gonna tase you, you know? So I get him outside and we get over to the side of the building. And she comes back and she sees the dollar amount. And I'll never forget her picking it up and putting it to her heart. And that expression, and I'll never forget standing there with my son where I've told him it's good to do good. You need to do good. But Rachel, he did something you talk about in your book, Smart Money, Smart Kids. It more is caught than taught, right? And my son caught me doing something good.

- Sees it, so good.

- And I will never forget that moment. It stuck in my head. And so I want people to give. I want people to do it, but let your kids see you. Let them be a part of that and watch what happens. They learn to give as well.

- Totally, I think that's such a great point. And so for you guys working this plan, you may not be at baby step seven, but the beautiful thing that we teach, that we are hardcore on is that you need to be giving no matter where you are in the process. So even if you are getting out of debt, giving is still at the top of your budget because it's a habit you create. And a lot of people believe, well, if I just make more money, then I would give. And that's not the case. It's not, it's not a math--

- You would give more, but you won't start giving.

- That's right, that's right. It's not a math issue, it's a heart issue. Kinda like what we talked about earlier, but it's true. So, making it a habit now, giving a little until you can be able to give a lot here in baby step seven. Well, I think this is so fun having you guys be able to talk about this 'cause it is, it's a point for people to look at that baby step and to work towards because what you can do in your life and others is just incredible. And just like you said, it's true there was a study done that said you have momentary happiness when you receive a gift, but you have longer term happiness when you are actually the giver. And what it does to change you and your family and it is. It's just, I say it over and over again, but it's true. It is the most fun.

- Yes, it is.

- It is the most fun you can have with money. So, if you had one last piece of encouragement for people throughout all the baby steps, what would you say?

- When you pay a price to win, it's worth it. We say it all the time, and the baby steps are a process you're going through. And you are living like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. What if you could do some of the things we're talking about right here and it not affect your life? Because you'd done such a good job. You can do it.

- It's good.

- Yeah, I would tell people that regardless of where you are right now, don't get distracted and believe in yourself. You know, it is a plan worth working and I promise you, once you get there, you're gonna look back and you're gonna be able to encourage other people. So stay plugged in, keep understanding why you're doing this to be able to be a blessing to others.

- So good, so good. Well you guys, if it makes you not wanna start this plan, I feel like you're not alive watching this. So I'm excited for you guys and the journey you're on and the fact that we all get to sit here and help with that is a true honor on our part. So, thanks you guys for being on. Seriously, I really appreciate it.

- Thank you.

- Very cool.

- Well, it's my favorite time of the show. That's right, celebrating you guys with She Works Hard Saving Money. Sarah said, "As soon as we finished baby step three, "we started an international adoption "and now we help others adopt. "I started a group to help people come up "with adoption fundraising ideas." So great, Sarah, I love that. Cassandra said, "We had mismatched "hand-me-down furniture for 10 years. "We agreed when our mortgage was 3/4 paid we would celebrate "so we sold the old furniture and got this. "It makes me so happy to have furniture that matches "and I know nothing will compare "to that paid off mortgage in 2019!" So awesome, Cassandra. Kelsey said, "Three years ago, "my dad graciously gifted my husband and myself "with our honeymoon hotel in Maui. "My dad travels all the time for business, "so he's saved up quite a few "hotel rewards from his business trips, "plus he's gone through FPU with my mom. "I guess you could say they're living "and giving like no one else. "We are still to this day humbled "and thankful for such a generous gift." I love that you guys. You guys are killing it. So remember, if you wanna post on social what you are saving up for or how you're working to save money, post a picture and put she works hard saving money as the hashtag. Well, this was such a fun episode. I hope you guys feel encouraged and have the tools you need to start winning with your money. Now, if you wanna take it a step further, you need to go through Financial Peace University. And Chris Hogan, Dave Ramsey, and myself, we're all in it. It is the proven program that will help you never worry about money again. The average person that goes through Financial Peace University pays off $5,300 in debt and saves $2,700 in the first 90 days. You guys, that's crazy. Alright, well for you all watching, thank you for tuning in to this episode and thanks to Dave Ramsey and Chris Hogan for coming on and sharing their wisdom. And for you guys, always remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.